[The following containsspoilersfor Shadow and Bone Season 1.]
At long last,Shadow and Boneis here. Almost nine years after the book’s publication, authorLeigh Bardugo’s fantasy novel and its subsequent sequels and spinoffs have arrived on the small screen in the form of a highly anticipated Netflix series. The road to getting here has been just as long, as Bardugo’s book trilogy was first optioned by DreamWorks back in 2012. But sometimes everything comes together just as it needed to, as the benefit of waiting until now to adapt Bardugo’s Grishaverse means theShadow and BoneandSix of Crowsworlds now co-exist in the same TV series.
Bardugo’s first foray into the aforementioned Grishaverse was theShadow and Bonetrilogy, which focuses on the character of Alina Starkov and follows a “chosen one” narrative as she’s revealed to be a saintly “sun summoner” who can potentially heal a divided nation in Bardugo’s fictional world. That trilogy focused intensely on “Grisha” or magically gifted people populating the universe that Bardugo created, which is why in 2015 she publishedSix of Crows, which takes place years after the events ofShadow and Boneand focuses on a cadre of non-Grisha characters inhabiting the same universe.
TheSix of Crowsduology ended up being wildly popular thanks to its central trio of charming characters – Kaz, Inej, and Jesper – so Bardugo was delighted whenEric Heisserer, the showrunner bringingShadow and Boneto the screen for Netflix, felt strongly that theSix of Crowscharacters should be brought into the first season of this series adaptation. The result is a wildly entertaining and thrilling first season, with the story still closely following the events ofShadow and Bonebut also bringing in theSix of Crowscharacters as their own little sexy heist trio, thieving away and sneaking around while Alina and the Darkling navigate their power dynamic.
I recently got the chance to speak with Bardugo about Netflix’sShadow and Boneadaptation, and how she felt about seeing the writers create new stories for herSix of Crowscharacters. The author was candid about the experience of seeing her stories adapted for the first time, and the back-and-forth she had with Heisserer and the writers to ensure that any changes made wouldn’t upset events that happen in later books or the themes that were most important to her. Bardugo also talked about the casting process from her perspective, why she felt the inclusion of theSix of Crowscharacters was a smart idea, and how involved she was in the planning and writing of the show.
We also delved into specific story points from the first season, including that showdown between Kaz (Freddy Carter) and the Darkling (Ben Barnes) and how that scene came about, and why the ending of Season 1 is a cliffhanger. We dug deep into the morally complicated nature of the Darkling and why Bardugo felt it important to create a villain with some humanity. And finally, Bardugo talked about what she hopes to see in aShadow and BoneSeason 2 if Netflix renews the series, and how long the show could potentially run now that she’s put a pin in the Grishaverse with the publication of her latest bookRule of Wolves.
RELATED:‘Shadow and Bone’ Showrunner Eric Heisserer on the Darkling, Season 2 Hopes, and Why There’s Not More Kissing
And last but not least, I asked Bardugo why there’s not more kissing in the first season of the series.
It’s a wide-ranging and insightful interview with the mind behind the entireShadow and Boneworld. Check it out below.
How long did it take to finally bring an adaptation to fruition? Were there other versions in the works, years ago?
LEIGH BARDUGO: Well, we did first sell the option to the original trilogy to DreamWorks in 2012. And then as so often happens in Hollywood, the executive who had brought it in and shepherded it left to work for another studio. So, the project was essentially orphaned. And by that time, when the option came up again, I had then writtenSix of Crows, and we were taking meetings for both series. And it’s a very weird process when you’re an outsider in Hollywood, these meetings are very confusing. It sometimes feels like people haven’t read the books, but want to talk about things like franchises, and even amusement parks. And it wasn’t until we sat down with Netflix, and they really started talking about story and how much they valued the stories of young people, that I felt like, okay, maybe we’re in the right place.
That’s probably very reassuring to hear once you get there. And then obviously seeing how they’ve shepherdedStranger Thingsand tons of other adaptations and non-adaptations. But once it got set up at the early stages at Netflix, what was your involvement there? Did you get to help choose Eric as the show runner and meet with other potential show runners?
BARDUGO: (Laughs) Well, it was a love at first sight situation, because Eric had Tweetedabout Six of Crowslong ago when he was reading it for the first time. And to him, it was just, “Oh, I was reaching out to a creator to let them know that I liked their work.” But meanwhile, my friends and I were all agog that the screenwriter ofArrivalwas reading it, of course, and were then spinning fantasies of him someday adapting one of my books. And then when we made this deal with Netflix, I said, “Eric Heisserer is a fan, and he’s pretty great at what he does, so maybe we should see if he’s at all interested in working in television.” And they did approach him, and I don’t know if the rest is history, but it’s history in progress.
Well, I know his original pitch was to combine bothShadow and BoneandSix of Crows, and Netflix said, “That’s great. We don’t have the rightsto Six of Crows,” and he walked out and then you guys came together later on. How did you feel about that, about that idea of bringing the two worlds together in one series?
BARDUGO: I thought it was a pretty great idea. I am keenly aware of how many people theSix of Crowsstories brought into the Grishaverse, and to me, the story of the Crows, of Kaz and his crew, provides a very different kind of story and point of view, thanShadow and Boneand Alina’s story. Alina’s story is very much a chosen one story. AndSix of Crows, I think I wrote, in part, in response to finishing that trilogy and thinking, “Okay, well that’s all well and good, but what happens to the people who don’t have royal blood, or great magic, or grand destinies? How do the people who are caught in the crossfire, how did those people carry on and exist in this world where all these epic things are happening?” So, it felt very organic to bring these two stories together, to provide those different perspectives. And eventually, in the sequel toSix of Crows,Crooked Kingdom, some of these characters do end up on a collision course. So, it wasn’t as if it was a completely unheard of idea.
I think it works tremendously well, because you get a full meal in each episode. You are watching this chosen one story that’s really compelling, and then all of a sudden, you smashed to the sexy heist trio, and you’re in a whole other world and watching them do fun stuff.
BARDUGO: (Laughs) I like sexy heist trio. That’s a great assessment of our team there.
That’s how my TV editor and I have been describing the Six of Crows characters.
BARDUGO: I love it.
And how much we love the sexy heist trio.
BARDUGO: I think it gives a fuller sense of the world. And I think it also throws into sharper relief how different Ravka is from some of the other places in this world, the way this country has been left behind by the existence of the Fold, isolated by it. And I think that’s important, and it adds a lot of texture to the story, and, I think, makes Alina’s story more poignant, particularly when these characters finally get to meet up.
Those are some of the most exciting parts of the series. But I’m curious, as Eric started working on the scripts and got the writer’s room together, what was your involvement there as this was taking shape and they were essentially taking yourSix of Crowscharacters and creating entirely new stories for them?
BARDUGO: Eric and I talked about the shape of the season early on, and what the mechanism was by which these two stories were going to fit together. That mechanism is heisting Alina Starkov. She’s the goal of the Crows’ heist. So, once that was in place, I felt pretty comfortable leaving them to move this forward. And then I would go into the writer’s room every week, sometimes every two weeks, and they would pitch me one or two episodes, walk me through the outline. We would have a talk about it. Sometimes we would have a heated debate about it, about things that concerned me that might blow up the road further on, things that I thought might tamper with the magic system in a way that would be untenable later in the series.
And sometimes I would just applaud and be delighted, because it was very fun to be surprised by my own stories and my own characters. And we did a lot of talking about where the Crows are, because this is in the time before this heist. They’re in different places in their lives than they are inSix of Crows. So, there needs to be a place for them to get to. So, we’re really talking about them at a point of development that’s slightly different than where they are at the start of the novel, Six of Crows.
I actually interviewed Eric this morning and asked him about working with you, and he called you, the writers’ lifeline and said you were involved probably more than you wanted to be in terms of them calling you and asking you numerous questions.
BARDUGO: (Laughs) Well, there were times he would ask me things, I would say, “I have absolutely no idea, but I’m going to get you an answer,” or I would actually have to go and dig in my old notebooks to see if I would have a vague memory of naming something, or writing about something that never made it into the book. So, and I think just about any author would be delighted to be receiving those texts, because it means they give a damn about the material.
As the author and creator of this material, was there anything about the books, or in the books, that you made clear to Eric was very important to you to carry over into this series?
BARDUGO: It was a bigger picture note that I gave early on, which was, there are certain things that have to remain intact, and they are the deep core motivations and experiences of these characters. We’re not going to tamper with their backstories. We’re not going to tamper with what they’re longing for or seeking in the world. That was very important to me. But I also never felt like Eric felt this was something that was broken and needed fixing, which I think is a way that some people approach adaptation, that the thing is not worthy of respect, or not worthy of interest, or that it has somehow tricked all of these readers into finding it appealing. I never felt that way in dealing with Eric. And so, I really was never worried that he was going to start tearing things apart.
Well and then of course the casting process, I’m sure, was very exciting, but equally daunting and maybe a little bit scary for you.
BARDUGO: Very scary!
What was what experience like, of finding all of these people? Because I think it worked tremendously well. It’s a lot of up and comers and I think they all, especially theCrowscharacters, just immediately that chemistry between the three of them is incredible.
BARDUGO: Yes. I’ve never been through this before, so I had no idea what to expect from casting. And it was quite different than anything I’d imagined. I thought we would see a bunch of auditions, and we would all have our favorites, and we would debate about it. But what really happens is, you all fall in love at the same time, because when somebody is really good and really suited to playing the character, it’s really like a lightning strike. And what was fascinating to me was then putting these people in the room together and seeing how their chemistry worked, and that is when you really know what you’re dealing with. But we just got very, very lucky, because they’re not only super talented people, super charismatic people, but also very kind, enthusiastic, genuine people. And I remember being on set. I visited set twice. Once, very close to the beginning of shooting, and once at the very end. I was there on the last day.
And in those last days, they had been shooting for six months, and these long days, in a foreign country, and they were singing together, and laughing together, and smiling, and it was as if they were leaving summer camp, they were so heartbroken. And I thought, something really special happened here. And that’s why people keep asking me, “How do you feel? How do you think the show is going to go?” I have no idea. You never know if something will catch fire or not, but I can say, without hesitation, that you see in every frame of that show the kind of love and dedication and passion that everybody brought to it.
I also wanted to ask about the scene where Kaz and Kirigan meet, which I knew was going to be a huge deal for all the fans. Whose idea was that, and what went into making that moment what it is? Because it’s definitely foreshadowing some events that could happen in further seasons.
BARDUGO: We didn’t sit down and say, “You know would be great is, if this character met this character.” What really happened was that it made sense for the story. But there was this moment where I was reading through that first script and I thought, “Oh, man, people are going to lose their minds with this.” But it is also, there’s a question I get asked all the time, who would win in a fight? It’s the Batman versus Superman of the Grishaverse. And my answer has always been, “There’s no way Kaz would ever get into that fight. He’s too smart to take on someone head to head who is that overpowered.” So, for me, it was very interesting to see the way the writers found their way around that.
It’s a very fun scene, and I’m excited to see more of that as it continues, if the show hopefully continues. I also wanted to ask you about Kirigan and just more of the characterization of that character, as the creator of this character and the person who wrote them through all these books. Because I watch a lot of fantasy and sci-fi, I’ve seen a lot of mustache-twirling villains, and I thought it was really interesting that the show does take great make you understand what Kirigan is trying to do. He’s got very bad methods of course, but there’s that scene in Episode 7 where he’s telling Alina, “We want the same thing.” And she tells him, “You could have had it, but you ruined it. You’re doing all these terrible things.”
BARDUGO: This could be us, but you playin’.
Exactly yeah.
BARDUGO: Yeah. Look, I don’t think villains are interesting when you can’t tell where they’re coming from. There should be a moment, and I certainly had plenty of them, when you think, “Oh, this guy’s making a pretty good argument.” And the issue for Kirigan, for the Darkling, is not his motive, which is a good one, to protect his people and to protect his nation. The problem is that he has lived so long, that he has lost his humanity, and so much so that he is taken aback and surprised by it when it rears its head. He doesn’t know how to parse the actual emotions he’s feeling toward Alina, and he does not know how to combat her humanity. So, he fundamentally misunderstands her connection to other people and how that empowers her.
And look, the Darkling is probably the most, maybe second to Kaz, the most popular character I’ve written. And I think that’s because something so compelling about somebody with that much power, and with that much conviction. And the fact that he’s very attractive doesn’t hurt either. But I also think, it’s important for us to see antagonists who aren’t caricatures, because I’ve found that the most dangerous people in our lives do not enter twirling a mustache, evil tattooed on their foreheads. They’re people who are beautiful, and wounded, and compelling, but who can still do a lot of damage all the same.
Yeah. I was just really, really impressed by all of that. And I really appreciated the flashback in the series as well, that goes back and shows him at a different point in his life.
BARDUGO: I think there’s still some humanity in him, despite the many years and the many crimes. But that is a scene that was invented by the writers. It doesn’t exist in the books. There is a short story called “Demon in the Wood,” that is about the Darkling at a much younger age, and his supervillain origin story. And to me, I remember a friend said to me, when I gave it to her to read, she said, “What are you doing? Everybody who loves him is just going to love him more. Even I like him now.” And I said, “That’s the fight that I’m asking people to take on.” I always want people to be able to sympathize with this character, even if they decide he’s not worthy of redemption, and not worthy of affection or humanity. I, at least, want them to know what he could have become in a different world if Ravka had been different.
RELATED:‘Shadow and Bone’ Season 2 and Beyond Teased by Showrunner and Author
I think that’s fantastic. I think that’s something that really sets this series apart.
BARDUGO: Thank you.
I also wanted to ask you about the Nina and Matthias storyline, crafting that within this first season and how that came about, and maybe some of the questions the writers maybe had for you and incorporating them here.
BARDUGO: Well, the Nina and Matthias scenes are actually some of the only scenes that come directly out ofSix of Crows. So, much ofSix of Crows, each character has flashbacks in that duology, and we get to see their pasts and understand the way they relate to their strengths and their weaknesses. Nina and Matthias' stories are woven into those books, and how they met, and where that led. So, of course, we don’t know if we’ll get a second season, but we certainly have a plan, and we wanted to lay the foundation for that plan early on.
I really loved how it ends with you’ve got all the really interesting characters on this boat together, and you just really want to see what next. It’s a little cruel.
BARDUGO: Well, we have to be cruel to get you to race to the internet and demand that Netflix bring us a second season!
I did want to talk about the ending of the first season, because I know it’s a little bit different from the ending of the book. And I was wondering if you could talk about how that came together, and deciding how the show wanted to approach its finale and its final moments. Obviously, the Darkling walking out of the Fold with those creatures is terrifying, which I know is something that also happens in the books. But I was wondering if you could talk about that whole building to the end of the season.
BARDUGO: You have to remember thatShadow and Bonewas the first book I sold. And it was, in fact, the first book I ever finished writing, despite many attempts before that to finish a novel. And when I was writing it, I didn’t know if anybody was going to buy one book, let alone all three. So, I kept notes for the sequels, but I just didn’t know what the future of this book was. And so, it has an ending that has an open door at the end of it, but I think if that had been the end of it, that could have been the end of the Grishaverse, with the end ofShadow and Bone. There would have been no Grishaverse, just Ravka. And it made perfect sense to me that we would move into, essentially, the first chaptersof Siege and Storm, the sequel toShadow and Bone, at the end of this season.
Because again, we want people to understand what will be coming if we get the opportunity to go there, and that this antagonist is not done for, in fact, that he may return even stronger and more dangerous than before. So, to me, that was a very compelling choice, and again, made perfect sense. I didn’t want them to tie the season up in a bow. Ever since then, I’ve left every book on a cliffhanger because I’m not stupid. So, I love a good cliffhanger. I hate them as readers, but as an author, I want you to demand the rest. I want you to be hungry for it, and I think it was a very smart move by Eric and his team.
Hypothetically, if there were a Season 2 of this show, what are some of the things that you would hope to see in that?
BARDUGO: I mean, for me, the big thing, I want to see Sturmhond, the Privateer. I want to see Wylan, who is the only pro we don’t get to see in Season 1. I’d love to see Tolya and Tamar. The problem with seeing your characters brought to life by fabulous actors is that it makes you very greedy, and I would be thrilled to see who we could find to play what are quite challenging roles. There’s just so much story. And I feel a lot of relief because I just releasedRule of Wolves, which is a goodbye for now to the Grishaverse. There’s a very good chance I’ll write more Grishaverse books in the future, but if I don’t, I feel like I’ve tied up the storylines in a way that gives me a lot of peace, so that the writers of the show can be free to be bold and daring in where they want to take the stories. There’s plenty of material for them, should they desire it.
This is where I put a check in on George R. R. Martin, and see how he’s doing.
BARDUGO: To be fair, one of his books is an entire trilogy for me (laughs). So, I don’t write epic fantasy that is remotely close to what he does. We are writing very different kinds of stories. And I’m a huge George R. R. Martin fan.
Oh, me too. I just imagine that any author who’s selling their franchise now is like, “Well, I really want to finish before the show ends.”
BARDUGO: Oh, believe me,Ninth House, I’m very behind on the second book. And we’re developing that show at Amazon, and I am in a very different position than I am with the Grishaverse, and it’s quite terrifying.
IsRule of Wolvessomething that Netflix has the rights to, if this show were to continue, those other books are things that they could get into?
BARDUGO: Netflix does not have the rights to them, but they know where to find me.
That’s fair. Would you consider writing an episode in Season 2? Is that something that’s of interest to you?
BARDUGO: I really thought it was until I realized how much time these shows take. I am working on the pilot toNinth Houseand I have absolutely loved it, but my great love is writing novels. And one of the things I had to do as the show progressed through production and post-production was to step back a little bit to say, I’ve tried to steer as much as I can. I’ve given the notes that I can give. I fought the battles I want to fight, and now I have to leave this in other people’s hands so that I can go back to doing what I dreamed of doing my whole life, and that I’m lucky enough to do now. So, I don’t know. I’d love to write an episode down the road, but I don’t think it will be in Season 2, if we get a Season 2, I think I’m going to need a long bath and some moments of quiet before I dive into anything like that.
This is just a purely nerdy question for me, and if this is in the books, please forgive me. But I was very fascinated by mythology surrounding the Bonesmith.
BARDUGO: Oh, yes.
We were calling him the Darkling Jesus.
BARDUGO: (Laughs)
Is that something that’s potentially explored in the show, going back that far and exploring the origins of this bloodline?
BARDUGO: Yes. If you do decide to pick up the trilogy, it’s a very light, fast read. The duology is denser, will take a little more of your time probably. But the mythology of Morozova and the Bonesmith is explored, especially inSiege and StormandRuin and Rising, and particularly in relation to the Darkling, Kirigan. And that lure is very important to me, and I think very important to the biggest themes in the story regarding power, and autonomy, and greed. And all I can say is that if we do get to make more of this show, Eric and I have talked a lot about the grand plan, and if we do get there, you will absolutely be seeing more of Darkling Jesus.
So I know this first season pretty much encompassesShadow and Bone. Is the idea that Season 2 would beSiege and Storm, or what would it take a little longer?
BARDUGO: I would prefer not to get too deeply into specifics. But I will say this, which is that there are currently seven novels in the Grishaverse, not counting the short stories. And I don’t believe it takes seven seasons to get through that story, because we’ve created this alternate timeline. But I’m not the showrunner, so we’ll see what Eric has in mind.
That’s his problem.
BARDUGO: Exactly. That’s my favorite part of this game. Great idea. Can’t wait to see how you pull it off.
I asked him this question. This is directly from my TV editor Liz Shannon Miller. Why not more kissing?
BARDUGO: (Laughs) I mean, I am often the person who fights the kissing. I like the slow burn. My readers can tell you, I like to torture them with a slow burn. And the will-they, won’t-they is pretty much one of my favorite TV tropes. So, I want viewers to be screaming at the screen, “Kiss, kiss,” before it actually happens. And I think there’s nothing worse than a relationship that is forced to ripen too quickly for the sake of the plot. Also, sometimes the things you think you want, you don’t want as much as you thought you wanted them. So, that’s a game I love to play, and I will admit that I am the person who’s frequently pulling on the reins and saying, “Wait, just wait. Don’t give it to them yet.”
Shadow and Bone is now streaming on Netflix.
KEEP READING:‘Shadow and Bone’: Ben Barnes on the “Make Me Your Villain” Scene and What He Wants to See in Season 2
